(;FF[4]GM[1]CA[UTF-8]RU[Chinese]SZ[9]KM[7.5]TM[1800]
EV[14th Computer Olympiad]PC[Pamplona, Spain]
DT[2009-05-13]RO[10 (playoff)]PB[MoGo]PW[Fuego];B[ee]BL[1799.583]
;W[dg]WL[1799.803]
;B[cf]BL[1799.315]
;W[ff]WL[1799.548]C[IvanPerez2 [?\]: good luck to both
mmueller1: Mogo is Black in game 1
xiefan [?\]: good lucks to both
Lew [2d\]: good luck
]
;B[fe]BL[1608.436]
;W[gf]WL[1798.568]C[chiaping [?\]: who would be the champion
chiaping [?\]: unable to make out
mmueller1: 2 playoff games
mmueller1: if tied, 2 more
mmueller1: if still tied, one more with coin flip for color
]
;B[ge]BL[1430.615]
;W[cc]WL[1794.687]
;B[cd]BL[1278.711]
;W[dd]WL[1714.644]
;B[de]BL[1139.567]
;W[bd]WL[1655.455]C[rsegal [?\]: Fuego: 0.50 b6 c5 e7 b8
Lew [2d\]: can we get estimates of mogo as well?
arpad [?\]: 52 for mogo
arpad [?\]: going down
goIngo [-\]: thx to rsegal for the values
goIngo [-\]: also to arpad
]
;B[ce]BL[1019.719]C[rsegal [?\]: I am sending most to mmueller anyway :-)
goIngo [-\]: can we know what hardware is used in these playoffs?
]
;W[ec]WL[1542.845]C[Lew [2d\]: can you post estimates here?
rsegal [?\]: 0.5 e7 b8 g7 d8
Meepy [-\]: what good does b8 do?
arpad [?\]: 51 D8 D7 E8
rsegal [?\]: Hardware.  Cluster of 8 machines, each with Dual quad-core Xeons, 16GB memory.  64 core total.
Lew [2d\]: only fuego knows :)
arpad [?\]: and for the hardware: 16 cores of 3GHz
goIngo [-\]: thx richard, arpad
]
;B[db]BL[896.792]C[Meepy [-\]: those are some nice machines :)
]
;W[dc]WL[1494.53]C[Lew [2d\]: fuego seems to not ues too much time
rsegal [?\]: .51 d7 b8 c8 f8
arpad [?\]: .51 E8 F7
Lew [2d\]: 51% for black?
rsegal [?\]: Fuego is using lots of time, the time Mogo is using.  When in is quick, it has decided during pondering.
]
;B[eb]BL[801.304]C[rsegal [?\]: All more scores are for white.
arpad [?\]: my score is for mogo
Meepy [-\]: so they both think they're winning by 1%?
]
;W[gc]WL[1441.109]C[arpad [?\]: yep
Lew [2d\]: and now?
goIngo [-\]: no, 51 for each side
rsegal [?\]: and they are both right
goIngo [-\]: is perfectly ok
rsegal [?\]: .52 g7 f8 f7 b8 c8
goIngo [-\]: because the side which is to move just has a slight edge
ibd [13k\]: f7?
arpad [?\]: .52 H5 F8
goIngo [-\]: now, when they drift away from .50
goIngo [-\]: some tactically crucial position seems to come nearer
]
;B[he]BL[710.838]C[goIngo [-\]: better "soar away from 0.50"
Lew [2d\]: F2 is dangerous now
]
;W[cg]WL[1393.221]C[rsegal [?\]: .55 c3 f8 f7 b8 c8
arpad [?\]: .50 F2 B3
ibd [13k\]: fuego still looks at making top alive it seems
]
;B[bb]BL[630.263]C[Lew [2d\]: fuego have to live on both sides
Lew [2d\]: PV?
ibd [13k\]: yes
ibd [13k\]: lukasz, it's you?
Lew [2d\]: yes
]
;W[fb]WL[1347.229]C[ibd [13k\]: hi :)
rsegal [?\]: .59 f8 b7 c8 f2 e2
ibd [13k\]: sorry if I spell your name wrongly
arpad [?\]: .48 B7 C8
]
;B[bc]BL[558.831]C[goIngo [-\]: Black seems to need some "deus ex machina" now
Lew [2d\]: looks like the game is over
]
;W[cb]WL[1321.828]C[ibd [13k\]: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1417
rsegal [?\]: .60 c8 e2 e3 f2
]
;B[eh]BL[495.798]C[arpad [?\]: .47
]
;W[eg]WL[1291.607]C[goIngo [-\]: nice, ibd
rsegal [?\]: .63 e3 f2 g2 h2
Lew [2d\]: G2?
]
;B[gh]BL[440.008]C[arpad [?\]: .46
arpad [?\]: slowly going down
]
;W[fh]WL[1251.804]C[rsegal [?\]: .65 f2 f1 d2 f3 g3
Meepy [-\]: whoa, it wants a ko?
arpad [?\]: .47 F1 F3 going up again :)
]
;B[fi]BL[390.149]
;W[dh]WL[1243.061]C[arpad [?\]: .50 F3 B3
rsegal [?\]: .66 d2 f3 g3 f2
]
;B[fg]BL[345.123]
;W[gg]WL[1238.387]C[Lew [2d\]: difference in opinions :)
ibd [13k\]: so it adds up to 116 already :)
arpad [?\]: .48 H8 H7 ...
mmueller1: w stupid :(
goIngo [-\]: plurality in opinions isalways good
]
;B[hb]BL[304.55]C[Lew [2d\]: yep
ibd [13k\]: b needs h3?
]
;W[hc]WL[1195.712]C[Lew [2d\]: why W stupid?
arpad [?\]: .45 G8 J8
rsegal [?\]: .70 h7 h2 b2 b4 f2 j5
mmueller1: bad programming I guess :(
Lew [2d\]: :D
]
;B[gb]BL[270.151]C[Lew [2d\]: do you think G3 was bad?
goIngo [-\]: which move decision did you mean, Martin?
mmueller1: it has this tendency to start crazy ko when it would have a safe win without ko
Lew [2d\]: maybe it calculated it is not crazy :)
]
;W[ca]WL[1141.963]
;B[ic]BL[238.561]C[lobo [-\]: from what i see computer go is far far away from beating human players
Lew [2d\]: B is using all go threats
]
;W[id]WL[1103.575]C[Meepy [-\]: maybe he wants j5
rsegal [?\]: .74 j6 f7 f6 f9 f7
]
;B[ib]BL[212.145]
;W[hd]WL[1072.21]C[mandelbrot [2k\]: computers already have beaten top amateurs on 9x9, so you couldn't be further from the truth
arpad [?\]: .41 H3 B2
Meepy [-\]: white'll still have 4 outside liberties
ibd [13k\]: also beaten pro without handi
]
;B[hg]BL[188.209]C[mandelbrot [2k\]: and I guess pros also lost some games
]
;W[bh]WL[1035.588]C[Lew [2d\]: beaten in one game but not in a series 
Lew [2d\]: humans learn fast :)
ibd [13k\]: true
arpad [?\]: .38 B4
rsegal [?\]: .80 b2 c1 d1 f7
mandelbrot [2k\]: there was more than one
]
;B[bf]BL[167.17]C[goIngo [-\]: for human players their style is looking strange
]
;W[hf]WL[1004.322]C[rsegal [?\]: .81 h4 e4 f2 f7 f6 f3
goIngo [-\]: but strange does not need "bad"
]
;B[ie]BL[148.277]C[goIngo [-\]: need to mean
]
;W[hh]WL[979.078]C[arpad [?\]: .38 F7
]
;B[fc]BL[131.739]C[lobo [-\]: one time a go program won with human on 9 it was mogo, here mogo seems to be obliterated by some program plaing moves like c9 when b9 would be sente
lobo [-\]: so what kind of mogo was it?
]
;W[fd]WL[948.961]C[mandelbrot [2k\]: mogo also won on 6
ibd [13k\]: wasn't that many faces?
Lew [2d\]: just play with it when it is online
]
;B[fa]BL[116.85]C[mandelbrot [2k\]: and there is stronger software than mogo
lobo [-\]: i do play
]
;W[fc]WL[919.754]C[lobo [-\]: and if i really pay attention no bot can even come close
]
;B[fh]BL[105.277]C[rsegal [?\]: .85 f7 f2 j3 e4
mandelbrot [2k\]: on 9x9?
arpad [?\]: .31
mandelbrot [2k\]: no way
lobo [-\]: yes
]
;W[ig]WL[908.441]
;B[ef]BL[93.893]
;W[ea]WL[905.655]C[lobo [-\]: brilliant
]
;B[if]BL[83.345]C[goIngo [-\]: come on, lobo
]
;W[ci]WL[903.356]C[goIngo [-\]: you are kidding
]
;B[ah]BL[74.497]
;W[ag])
(;FF[4]GM[1]CA[UTF-8]RU[Chinese]SZ[9]KM[7.5]TM[1800]
EV[14th Computer Olympiad]PC[Pamplona, Spain]
DT[2009-05-13]RO[10 (playoff)]PB[Fuego]PW[MoGo];B[ee]BL[1799.748]C[mmueller [-\]: GTP Engine for mmueller (white): MoGo version 3.0.0: I'll resign if you win and playing until you pass if I win. If you passed and I did not, it often means that the status of some stones are not clear enough for me (I want to be sure we will agree on dead stones). Clarify them. Maybe I am losing, but have not enough time to be sure I should resign. In this case play until the end :'( (very rare cases)
]
;W[ec]WL[1790.148]
;B[dd]BL[1799.508]
;W[gf]WL[1789.869]
;B[ff]BL[1799.232]
;W[gg]WL[1789.566]
;B[fg]BL[1798.984]
;W[dc]WL[1789.289]C[Meepy [-\]: whoa
Lew [2d\]: quick exchange :)
rsegal [?\]: opening book merge ;-)
MaLa [1d\]: so if someone finds a mistake in this openingbooks ^^ he can really rock ^^
]
;B[ge]BL[1738.034]
;W[he]WL[1789.014]
;B[gd]BL[1696.028]
;W[hd]WL[1788.732]C[Lew [2d\]: unless it adapts. 
rsegal [?\]: .51 g6 f2 e2 h6 c7 g7
Lew [2d\]: mogo?
]
;B[gc]BL[1640.768]
;W[cd]WL[1788.47]C[arpad [?\]: no number
arpad [?\]: not while it is in the opening book
Lew [2d\]: ah
Lew [2d\]: I see
]
;B[ce]BL[1612.434]C[arpad [?\]: .53 B7 B6
rsegal [?\]: .52 c5 b6 b5 b8 h7
chiaping [?\]: Mogo will win I guess
rsegal [?\]: With .47-.52 probability, you are right ;-)
chiaping [?\]: the opening book is excellent
Lew [2d\]: :)
Lew [2d\]: I think W is ahead few points
goIngo [-\]: is this opening known from human games?
mmueller1: added this morning :)
theshining [2d\]: what happens if this is always going to be that white wins?
theshining [2d\]: games with reduced komi?
mmueller1: I think komi should be 7
mmueller1: allow ties
goIngo [-\]: would komi=7.0 lead to boring games?
mmueller1: not yet :)
]
;W[bc]WL[1593.328]C[xiefan [?\]: with 7.5, black can not win if white have a good openning
Lew [2d\]: would ties spoil go?
goIngo [-\]: Last year Giancarlo Pasucutto wrote
Lew [2d\]: B7 very nice move
goIngo [-\]: that integral komi would not be good
MaLa [1d\]: well, but 7 gives some nice problems ^^
goIngo [-\]: because his Leela was not prepared forties ;-)
goIngo [-\]: for ties
MaLa [1d\]: like what is better a 50% win or a 80% draw
]
;B[be]BL[1547.577]C[rsegal [?\]: .5 b5 f8 c8 c7 f2
arpad [?\]: .53 F8 C8
xiefan [?\]: the two professional go player in my lab, all said that 7.5 is better for white
goIngo [-\]: the results of this comp tournament seem also to point in this directiion
mmueller1: fuego 8x8core vs 16core still won 60% with black
mmueller1: but like 84% with white
]
;W[fb]WL[1415.327]C[Lew [2d\]: g2 is huge
mmueller1: w wins
goIngo [-\]: martin, how was it in autoplay?
ibd [13k\]: wasn't 8x8 much stronger anyway?
Lew [2d\]: I think B wins :)
goIngo [-\]: I mean, identical hardware
theshining [2d\]: should  be 50/50
mmueller1: did not try recently
]
;B[cb]BL[1435.379]C[rsegal [?\]: .52 c8 c7 g8
arpad [?\]: .54 C7 G8
rsegal [?\]: Interesting, same sequence, different evals.
]
;W[cc]WL[1264.703]C[goIngo [-\]: is this sequence complete or do you give only first two plies?
goIngo [-\]: or 3 plies, resp
rsegal [?\]: go much deeper, only typing a portion.
arpad [?\]: after 2 plies it doesn't mean much
teytaud [?\]: "fuego 8x8core" means that Fuego is running on 8 octo-cores ?
rsegal [?\]: true
rsegal [?\]: yes
rsegal [?\]: yes, 8 octo-cores
goIngo [-\]: so, the new cray-type box ?!
rsegal [?\]: not yet :-)
]
;B[gb]BL[1334.027]C[goIngo [-\]: last year this name "cray-type box" was used in German magazines
goIngo [-\]: "Der Spiegel", for instance
rsegal [?\]: Not that it means much, but here is the full eval: .52  G8 G2 D8 E8 B8 B9 A8 A7 F9 E9 E6 F2 E2 E3 D2 E1 D1 E4 D4 F5 F6
arpad [?\]: i have to copy by hand so it will only be the first move^^
arpad [?\]: .56 G2 B8
goIngo [-\]: arpad, can you give us in case of coincidence, how long coincidence is?
]
;W[gh]WL[1132.64]C[arpad [?\]: i will try but it changes a lot
goIngo [-\]: thx nevertheless
]
;B[db]BL[1242.202]C[rsegal [?\]: 0.49  D8 E8 F2 H7 B8 B9 A8 A7 F9 E9 H8 E6 D5 H3 J7 J6 J4 J3 H1 G1 J2
arpad [?\]: .61 B8 H2
RemiCoulom [4k?\]: Hi. How many games in the playoff ?
goIngo [-\]: this is second of two
goIngo [-\]: when mogo wins this one, two more
mmueller1: 2+2+1 if needed
RemiCoulom [4k?\]: thanks.
mstarsup5 [-\]: Remi: it's 1 - 0 for fuego for now
goIngo [-\]: and white seems to be winning all time
RemiCoulom [4k?\]: Could someone collect hardware info, so that it is displayed on the ICGA web site ?
]
;W[bb]WL[1004.197]C[theshining [2d\]: dead :D
goIngo [-\]: it is in the comments of game 1 of playoffs
MaLa [1d\]: looks like white winning is voer
]
;B[eb]BL[1198.355]C[chiaping [?\]: oh my god
goIngo [-\]: hardware info
theshining [2d\]: or maybe ... dead :(?
theshining [2d\]: i dont know ^^
mstarsup5 [-\]: omg :/
arpad [?\]: .66 F7 H7 ...
mstarsup5 [-\]: ;(
rsegal [?\]: .78  E8 F7 F9 E9 D9 G9 H9 C9 B9 D4 D5 F2 E9 B3 E3 E2 D2 D3 C4 C2 C3
goIngo [-\]: clash of evaluations
arpad [?\]: now .52
arpad [?\]: .48
goIngo [-\]: downtown mogo?
]
;W[fc]WL[888.107]C[Meepy [-\]: fuego just sees a bunch of ways to delay the kill
Meepy [-\]: horizon effect?
rsegal [?\]: f9 the key?
]
;B[fa]BL[1148.49]C[rsegal [?\]: 0.80 F9 E9 D9 D4 D5 G9 H9 C9 B9 B4 E9 A5 A6 A4 C4 D3 C3 B3 B2 A2 B1
mmueller1: mogo missed f9 for some reason. very strange
chiaping [?\]: G2 is slip up
]
;W[ea]WL[785.569]C[Fuego9 [-\]: GTP Engine for Fuego9 (black): Fuego version 0.3.SVN
enz: why did Fuego reconnect?
]
;B[da]BL[1107.146]C[rsegal [?\]: because it disconnected, why?  I dunno.
rsegal [?\]: 0.80 D9 D4 D5 C9 B9 G9 H9 B4 E9 A5 A6 F2 E3 E2 D2 D3 E4 C2 D1 C1
goIngo [-\]: main line of Fuego stable
]
;W[df]WL[692.643]
;B[de]BL[1085.874]C[goIngo [-\]: what is mogo's eval?
Lew [2d\]: mogo seems to have a bug
arpad [?\]: now it's .28
goIngo [-\]: hmm
arpad [?\]: it just didn't see the E8 response to B8
rsegal [?\]: .82 D5 F6 F5 B4 E9 C4 A4 A3 A5 B3 H7 F2
]
;W[bg]WL[613.451]
;B[ga]BL[1049.811]C[goIngo [-\]: g9, so Fuego seems to go for +0.5
mmueller1: b should just concentrate on making 2 eyes
]
;W[ad]WL[540.054]
;B[bf]BL[1014.197]
;W[cg]WL[473.171]
;B[fh]BL[983.127]C[goIngo [-\]: fuego eval?
Lew [2d\]: annihilation :)
rsegal [?\]: .91  F2 A4 A5 F1 D2 F6 F5 E2 E3 E1 D3 H7 B6 A7 A3 A2 A4 B2 A1  
]
;W[dh]WL[415.933]
;B[hc]BL[957.355]C[arpad [?\]: going up to .26
]
;W[ba]WL[364.538]C[theshining [2d\]: is there some fixed percentage where they resign?
arpad [?\]: 10%
theshining [2d\]: thx :)
arpad [?\]: once black is sure to leave it will happen
goIngo [-\]: in this important game they should play until the very end
ibd [13k\]: isn't b ahead by like a billion liberties?
]
;B[id]BL[921.637]C[goIngo [-\]: ibd, the board has only 81 squares
ibd [13k\]: oh right
Lew [2d\]: B is maximizing its score contrary to white
]
;W[hf]WL[319.344]
;B[hh]BL[892.272]C[Lew [2d\]: W alive in ko :)
]
;W[hi]WL[280.605]C[Lew [2d\]: or for pessimists W dead in ko :)
theshining [2d\]: risking this ko would be bad
]
;B[fi]BL[849]
;W[ih]WL[246.409]C[arpad [?\]: still 26% 
theshining [2d\]: lol
]
;B[bi]BL[820.288]
;W[eh]WL[215.803]C[rsegal [?\]: .94 B1 C9 E9 E2 E1 D1 E3 F6 F5 D3 A3 A2 B2 A4 A5 B6 A3 J7 A8 J8 A1  J5 A7 A9 A8 H9 E6 A7 A8 A7 B7 C7 B6
]
;B[ei]BL[798.746]C[arpad [?\]: now .29, be carefull fuego :)
goIngo [-\]: My commercial copy of Leela sometimes
goIngo [-\]: shows strange evals on 9x9
]
;W[di]WL[189.386]C[goIngo [-\]: so -a lot may happen
]
;B[eg]BL[778.828]
;W[dg]WL[166.006]C[goIngo [-\]: Mogo in time trouble
]
;B[bd]BL[750.072]C[Lew [2d\]: not yet
ibd [13k\]: is mogo pondering?
goIngo [-\]: for machines this is tt
]
;W[ib]WL[145.825]C[arpad [?\]: yes
]
;B[ia]BL[726.66]
;W[fd]WL[127.791]C[Lew [2d\]: A8 might be better than A5 or A7 later to avoid ko
]
;B[fe])
